Luke 9:37 - 43
37 On the next day, when they had come down from the mountain, a great crowd met him. 38 And behold, a man from the crowd cried out, “Teacher, I beg you to look at my son, for he is my only child. 39 And behold, a spirit seizes him, and he suddenly cries out. It convulses him so that he foams at the mouth, and shatters him, and will hardly leave him. 40 And I begged your disciples to cast it out, but they could not.” 41 Jesus answered, “O faithless and twisted generation, how long am I to be with you and bear with you? Bring your son here.” 42 While he was coming, the demon threw him to the ground and convulsed him. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit and healed the boy, and gave him back to his father. 43 And all were astonished at the majesty of God.
Questions:
ReplyDelete1. What are spirits?
2. Where are spirits today and how do they act?
3. Do spirits cause people to convulse and foam at the mouth?
4. Why couldn't the disciples cast the spirit out?
5. Who was Jesus calling faithless and twisted and why?
https://hartmangroupdevotionsmark.blogspot.com/2018/08/mark-914-29-14-when-they-came-to-other.html says:
ReplyDeleteslant on faith which is just not biblically-grounded. That is: we just pray for what we want and, if we earnestly believe, there would be no doubt we would get it - if we didn't get it, we could not have believed enough.
But - at least theoretically - if a man or woman was that filled with faith and with the Holy Spirit they could do quite amazing things - through God's power - very definitely not through any "power" of their own!
Jesus rebuked them because the power to drive out demons had already been granted to them (Matthew 10:1) and they should have held to this in faith, and not doubted. In other words, just as the power to heal the sick and to drive out demons would need to be specifically granted by God, even so the power to remove a mountain would need to be specifically granted by God.
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Faith is Not just believing really hard. Faith is having the mind of Christ. Faith is walking in step with the Holy Spirit within us. Faith is being obedient to what Christ has given us the authority to do.
So, why did the disciples not have enough faith this time? It's not clear why or how they didn't have enough faith this time (although, I believe that it was Not because they didn't believe hard enough). I think that our ability to walk in step with Christ/the Holy Spirit wavers. Sometimes we have our eyes on what God is doing and sometimes we don't.
I think John 5:19 gives an idea of what faith looks like: 'Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.'
The disciples didn't have a problem with belief (in the way we understand it - i.e. believing in Santa). They had a problem with their vision. I believe that their minds weren't on what God wanted done.
This also explains what Jesus meant by having faith to move mountains. If we see that God wants a mountain moved, and we are in it with Him, and He gives us the authority to move the mountain, we can obey or not obey.
With faith, first comes seeing what God is doing, understanding what God wants us to do, ridding ourselves of worldly thoughts, and then choosing to do what God commands.
That final line about faith is very thought provoking. I'll aim to check myself on those four things.
Deletehttps://hartmangroupdevotionsmark.blogspot.com/2018/08/mark-914-29-14-when-they-came-to-other.html continued:
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No doubt the teachers of the law had moved in for the kill when they realized that the disciples were without their Master and that he might be away for a long time. 13 The ubiquitous crowds were also present, adding to an already explosive mixture. We are told that there was quite an argument going on between the disciples and the teachers of the law. When they saw Jesus they were overwhelmed with wonder. There is an interesting Greek word used here (ekthambeomai) and it means an astonishment and trembling that is very close to alarm. 14 Several commentators have wondered why the people were so alarmed. Perhaps they were amazed because Jesus arrived at exactly the right time.
Some have suggested that Jesus still bore traces of the glory he had just received on the mountain. Most have discounted such a possibility feeling that the outward display of Christ’s glory would have negated his many appeals to keep his real identity hidden.
Demon possession and demonization were quite common in the first century. There is evidence that they were common in earlier days, even in Israel. The historian Josephus relates how God gave Solomon special knowledge in the art of dealing with demons and in the healing of diseases (Ant. 8.2.5 par. 45). This tradition concerning Solomon was believed widely in late antiquity. 17 There were a number of Jewish exorcists such as the one who appears later in this chapter. No doubt exorcism had been attempted many times on this young man even before the disciples vainly tried their hands at it.
The problem the young boy displayed here has many of the classic symptoms of epilepsy. While it is true that the gospels try to distinguish between demon possession and other physical problems, there seems to be a blurring of them here. 18 Even today it is likely that many health problems have their roots in the spiritual world. We just have no way of testing this on our “sophisticated” machinery.
As we have witnessed before, the demon in the boy tried to have one last fling before Jesus threw him out. Such action also may have been designed by the evil one to frighten the exorcist as well. Poole comments here, “He will do what harm he can when he cannot do us the harm he would.
We see here that the boy’s father had a little faith but not nearly enough. Jesus makes a great teaching here, telling us that faith is a very key element in the Christian life. It is somewhat like the power cord that connects the appliance to the outlet. When it is connected everything will work but when it is not nothing works. In Matthew’s account (Matt. 17:20) Jesus said that just a tiny bit of faith, even like a mustard seed, can move mountains.
We see here that Jesus worked even through this man’s weak faith. He can certainly increase and strengthen our faith (cf. Lk. 17:5; 22:32). After all, faith is really a gift that comes from God (Eph. 2:8). It was certainly difficult for the man to believe since he knew the every-day reality of his son’s demon possession.
‘faith’ means more than just believing. It involves relationship with God.” 23 In answer to their query Jesus was saying to his disciples, “You don’t live close enough to God.”
We must remember this in the great challenges of life. Christianity is all about relationship, a very close and continuous relationship with Jesus. It is only in such an affiliation that we will have the power to deal with life’s problems. That association is kept warm and vital through constant prayer.
https://hartmangroupdevotionsmark.blogspot.com/2018/08/mark-914-29-14-when-they-came-to-other.html continued:
ReplyDeletein Mark 9, in an act of great faith, brings his son to Jesus for healing. Except when he arrives, where’s Jesus? On the mountain with the A team. And so the B team attempts to heal the boy . . . with B team results.
Then, in 9:22, dad meekly asks Jesus to help “if” he can. And that sets Jesus off again to the point that what he says next appears to put a lot of power & authority in dad’s hands:
“‘If you can’?” said Jesus. “Everything is possible for one who believes” (Mark 9:23).
Now: you take that verse out of context and it’s like Jesus is saying “believe harder, pray longer, dig deeper and all your dreams will come true!” Except that’s not how the story works in context. Here’s 9:24, the heart of it all, the center of the story and this message:
Immediately the boy’s father exclaimed, “I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!”
I love it! I have faith and no faith. I trust and I don’t. I’m with Jesus and I’m not. All at the same time!
Remember where dad is. In the vortex of a battle between life giver and life stealer and life stealer is a lot more obvious in the moment.
And so the dad – who is us, remember – doesn’t get punished for his doubts, he gets blessed for his honesty about them. That tells me: if you are honest about where you are, Jesus is faithful to show who he is.
Listen: if you’ve never doubted, you’ve only half believed. Your doubts are not your enemy. Pretending is. The Lord loves the struggler and has no patience with the pretender.
no doubt ever diminished Jesus’ authority. He didn’t need dad’s permission to heal the boy. He healed the boy despite dad’s uncertainty.
https://hartmangroupdevotionsmark.blogspot.com/2018/08/mark-914-29-14-when-they-came-to-other.html continued:
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Summary & analysis of questions.
1. Why were to people overwhelmed with wonder.
This is a speculation question - one that there is too little information to answer. Some people have speculated that some of the glory from the Transfiguration was still on Jesus. I speculate that perhaps the people had become that much in awe and wonder of Jesus. Perhaps going up to the mountain reminded them of Moses going up to the mountain.
2. Is it possible that the boy was mentally ill? Or do some or all illness have a demonic component?
The boy's symptoms sound like epilepsy. But, I think the boy was demon possessed, because Jesus treats him that way. I'm not sure how common demon activity is in people today. It's possible that demons are hiding more to encourage us down the materialist route (that is, not believing in a spiritual world). It's also possible that a lot of our infirmaries are related to demon activity. Being able to deal with demon activity is just one of many reasons we need to be walking by the Spirit. Attempting to deal with demons on our own is just an exercise in superstition and wishful thinking.
3. Why does it require our belief?
4. Why couldn't the disciples cast it out? Were they not praying? What kind of praying did they need to do?
While the above answers were zoning in on what Jesus said, I hesitate at the tone they were setting. If we aren't careful, we could be led to believe that we have to power to heal people if only we believe hard enough.
The truth is that we are sinful and flawed, and bereft of any kind of power to do anything. We need the ability to see what God is doing and join Him with His enabling and will. But, even that ability to see what God is doing is beyond our grasp. That's where spending time with God helps. God can give us the ability to see if we spend time with Him and keep from being polluted by this world. (God has enabled us to keep from being polluted by this world, but we can still become polluted if we willingly engage in activities that pollute our soul).
We spend time with God, we see what He is doing, we obey and operate as His hands - and then, we need to go back to God to see what He is doing. Besides not seeing what God is doing in the first place, not going back to see what God is doing is a common downfall. We see once, get excited about doing what we saw, do what we saw, and then veer off the narrow road. We end up doing the right thing for a short period of time, and, then when we "take it from here", we wonder why things went wrong.
I speculate that this is what happened to the disciples. They were empowered by Jesus to cast out demons. They did that by seeing what Jesus did and did it. After a while they "took it from here" and relied on whatever formula that worked before. When they came to a new situation, their old formula didn't work. They didn't see what God / Jesus was doing anymore and instead relied on their old formula.
So, yes, doing God's work requires faith. Faith is seeing what God is doing and doing that. We get faith from God by spending time with Him in prayer.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-9-commentary says:
ReplyDeleteAs Wiersbe wisely reminds us "We dare not stay on the glorious mountaintop when there are battles to fight in the valley below."
A T Robertson says "It was just like the professional scribes to take keen interest in the failure of the nine disciples to cure this poor boy. They gleefully nagged and quizzed them. Jesus and the three find them at it when they arrive in the plain.
What is of note is that the father's appeal is clearly as expression of his faith, weak as it was. Notice that Jesus responded to even his weak faith.
How, why or at what age the child became demon possessed is not revealed, so it is futile to speculate. God ultimately permitted it to happen, as He did in the case of the man born blind (John 9:1-3), for His glory in demonstrating Christ’s power. The boy’s condition also illustrates the reality that everyone who is outside the kingdom of God is under the power of Satan (Eph. 2:2). It is only a question of degree.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-9-commentary continued:
ReplyDeleteThis seems to be an especially strong demon regarding which MacArthur writes "Evidently demons vary in strength just as humans do. For example in Daniel 10:12-14-note, a holy angel sent with a message for Daniel was held up by a stronger fallen angel until Michael the archangel intervened.) Having discerned the strength of the demon inhabiting this boy, the apostles should have sought God’s help in believing prayer (Mark 9:29). If they had done so with even a tiny amount of faith—“faith the size of a mustard seed” (Matt. 17:20)—they could have handled even extreme difficulties (symbolized by the Lord’s metaphorical statement, “you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move”). The word had been spoken, the promise given, the will of God made manifest. All the apostles needed to have done was to believe and ask God for the power. Unfortunately, in this instance they did not."
Marshall - The phraseology (unbelieving and perverted) thus reflects that of God when confronted by the faithless and disobedient generation in the wilderness.
MacArthur says You unbelieving and perverted generation . . . Sadly, the specific targets of the Lord’s rebuke on this occasion appear to have been His own apostles. Though not lacking in saving faith like the unbelieving crowd, their faith too was perverted in that they consistently failed to believe what He told them. His exclamation, “How long shall I be with you and put up with you?” reflects the disappointment and pain that their constant failure to believe and trust in what He told them caused Jesus."
MacArthur comments - Jesus did not usually call for faith in those He healed. In this case, however, He intended to use this man as an illustration for the apostles of what even imperfect faith in Him can accomplish. In brutal honesty “the boy’s father cried out and said, ‘I do believe; help my unbelief’” (v. 24). Desperately, he pleaded for Jesus to give him whatever was lacking in his faith....“All things are possible to him who believes,” is the lesson Jesus intended to teach. This was not the first time He had spoken of the importance of faith (cf. Mark 5:34-36; 6:5-6), nor would it be the last (cf. Mark 10:27; 11:22-24). The lesson that faith is essential to access the power of God applied to all the unbelieving crowd, the father, who was struggling to believe, as well as to the disciples, whose faith was weak and wavering. The disciples especially needed to learn this lesson, since after Christ’s death, they would need to access divine power through believing prayer.
Luke's version leaves out some significant details. Mk 9:26 says the demon obeyed Jesus, leaving the boy in a deathlike state which onlookers took for death. In Mk 9:27 Jesus raises the boy up which would give the disciples an object lesson regarding His soon to follow death and resurrection.
While Matthew 17:15 identifies the boys condition as epilepsy ("lunatic") and Lk 9:42 links it with demonic influence, it should be stated that the majority of epilepsy as we know it today is not associated with demonic influence. Unfortunately through history some people have equated epilepsy with demon possession because of similar symptoms.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-9-commentary continued:
ReplyDeleteMark 9:28-29 When He came into the house, His disciples began questioning Him privately, “Why could we not drive it out?” 29 And He said to them, “This kind cannot come out by anything but prayer.”
Hendriksen on "this kind" - "This kind" says Jesus, "can come out only by prayer." He is saying, therefore, that in the world of the demons there are differences: some are more powerful and more malignant than others. The disciples, therefore, should not have allowed their faith to flag, their prayers to take a holiday. Not only does Jesus urge his followers to pray; he also encourages them to persevere in prayer (Matt. 7:7; Luke 18:1-8; 21:36).
ESV Study Bible comments on “Why could we not cast it out?” Besides lacking understanding (Mk 8:17-18, 21; 9:5), the disciples lack the ability to fully carry out their commission from Jesus (cf. Mk 6:7, 13; 9:18). Their failure is an occasion for encouragement to more prayer (cf. Mk 4:10; 7:17; 10:10), implying that more time and effort in prayer (and therefore in closer fellowship with God) leads to growth in faith."
Wiersbe - When you study all three reports (Matt. 17; Mark 9), you discover what was lacking in their lives. First on the list was faith (Matt. 17:19-20); they were part of an unbelieving generation and had lost the confidence that they needed in order to use their power. But prayer and fasting were also lacking (Mark 9:29), which indicates that the nine men had allowed their devotional disciplines to erode during their Lord's brief absence. No matter what spiritual gifts we may have, their exercise is never automatic.
Note that the miracle by Jesus caused the crowd to focus on God, not Himself (although of course He was God!) Everything we are privileged to accomplish for the Kingdom should result in God being glorified, not ourselves! Are you challenged by this statement? I am! As Leon Morris says "Jesus did not attract attention to himself, but brought glory to the Father."
https://www.gotquestions.org/demon-possession.html
ReplyDeleteWhat does the Bible say about demon possession?
Here are some of the biblical passages: Matthew 9:32-33; 12:22; 17:18; Mark 5:1-20; 7:26-30; Luke 4:33-36; Luke 22:3; Acts 16:16-18. In some of these passages, the demon possession causes physical ailments such as inability to speak, epileptic symptoms, blindness, etc. In other cases, it causes the individual to do evil, Judas being the main example. In Acts 16:16-18, the spirit apparently gives a slave girl some ability to know things beyond her own learning. The demon-possessed man of the Gadarenes, who was possessed by a multitude of demons (Legion), had superhuman strength and lived naked among the tombstones. King Saul, after rebelling against the LORD, was troubled by an evil spirit (1 Samuel 16:14-15; 18:10-11; 19:9-10) with the apparent effect of a depressed mood and an increased desire to kill David.
Thus, there is a wide variety of possible symptoms of demon possession, such as a physical impairment that cannot be attributed to an actual physiological problem, a personality change such as depression or aggression, supernatural strength, immodesty, antisocial behavior, and perhaps the ability to share information that one has no natural way of knowing. It is important to note that nearly all, if not all, of these characteristics may have other explanations, so it is important not to label every depressed person or epileptic individual as demon-possessed. On the other hand, Western cultures probably do not take satanic involvement in people’s lives seriously enough.
In addition to these physical or emotional distinctions, one can also look at spiritual attributes showing demonic influence. These may include a refusal to forgive (2 Corinthians 2:10-11) and the belief in and spread of false doctrine, especially concerning Jesus Christ and His atoning work (2 Corinthians 11:3-4, 13-15; 1 Timothy 4:1-5; 1 John 4:1-3).
Concerning the involvement of demons in the lives of Christians, the apostle Peter is an illustration of the fact that a believer can be influenced by the devil (Matthew 16:23). Some refer to Christians who are under a strong demonic influence as being “demonized,” but never is there an example in Scripture of a believer in Christ being possessed by a demon. Most theologians believe that a Christian cannot be possessed because he has the Holy Spirit abiding within (2 Corinthians 1:22; 5:5; 1 Corinthians 6:19), and the Spirit of God would not share residence with a demon.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Christian-exorcism.html says:
ReplyDeleteCan a Christian today perform an exorcism?
Exorcism (commanding demons to leave other people) was practiced by various people in the Gospels and the Book of Acts—the disciples as part of Christ’s instructions (Matthew 10); others using Christ’s name (Mark 9:38); the children of the Pharisees (Luke 11:18-19); Paul (Acts 16); and certain exorcists (Acts 19:11-16).
It appears that the purpose of Jesus’ disciples performing exorcisms was to show Christ’s dominion over the demons (Luke 10:17) and to verify that the disciples were acting in His name and by His authority. It also revealed their faith or lack of faith (Matthew 17:14-21). It was obvious that this act of casting out demons was important to the ministry of the disciples. However, it is unclear what part casting out demons actually played in the discipleship process.
Interestingly, there seems to be a shift in the latter part of the New Testament regarding demonic warfare. The teaching portions of the New Testament (Romans through Jude) refer to demonic activity, yet do not discuss the actions of casting them out, nor are believers exhorted to do so. We are told to put on the armor to stand against them (Ephesians 6:10-18). We are told to resist the devil (James 4:7), be careful of him (1 Peter 5:8), and not give him room in our lives (Ephesians 4:27). However, we are not told how to cast him or his demons out of others, or that we should even consider doing so.
The book of Ephesians gives clear instructions on how we are to have victory in our lives in the battle against the forces of evil. The first step is placing our faith in Christ (2:8-9), which breaks the rule of “the prince of the power of the air” (2:2). We are then to choose, again by God’s grace, to put off ungodly habits and to put on godly habits (4:17-24). This does not involve casting out demons, but rather renewing our minds (4:23). After several practical instructions on how to obey God as His children, we are reminded that there is a spiritual battle. It is fought with certain armor that allows us to stand against—not cast out—the trickery of the demonic world (6:10). We stand with truth, righteousness, the gospel, faith, salvation, the Word of God, and prayer (6:10-18).
It appears that as the Word of God was completed, the Christians had more weapons with which to battle the spirit world than the early Christians did. The role of casting out demons was replaced, for the most part, with evangelism and discipleship through the Word of God. Since the methods of spiritual warfare in the New Testament do not involve casting out demons, it is difficult to determine instructions on how to do such a thing. If necessary at all, it seems that it is through exposing the individual to the truth of the Word of God and the name of Jesus Christ.
Questions and findings:
ReplyDelete1. What are spirits?
The spiritual world is a mystery to us. The few glimpses in the Bible show us that there is a spiritual world inhabited by (at least) angels and demons. In this section, the unclean spirit is a demon.
2. Where are spirits today and how do they act?
The Bible makes it clear that there is a unseen spiritual war. I am not sure at all how this war takes place, or how individual members of the war act in the world. It is clear that truth vs deception is one aspect of this war. How often people are "possessed" or "demonized" is a mystery. How often physical or mental ailments are due to demonic activity is also a mystery.
If we are to fight in this spiritual war, it's clear that we have to avoid sin, immerse ourselves in prayer and the Bible, and walk in step with the Spirit. Most of us are not doing that and consequently don't have any insight into this spiritual war. (A few others spout their own fantasies and think they are engaging in the spiritual war - which they might be, on the losing side).
One thing worth mentioning is that we don't know much about demonic activity back in Jesus' day. People ascribed spirits to all kinds of things. How much did Jesus correct them and how much did Jesus not bother to correct them - I don't know. I think it's possible that some demonic activity was actually physical and mental ailments, and Jesus didn't bother to correct people in those cases. It's also possible that demonic activity is responsible for all kinds of physical and mental conditions today that we don't identify. I don't think any of us really know.
3. Do spirits cause people to convulse and foam at the mouth?
What we call epilepsy does. I don't think any of us know how demonic activity and physical ailments are related, if at all.
4. Why couldn't the disciples cast the spirit out?
Faith is not blind belief. Faith is walking in the Holy Spirit. Walking in the Spirit is what happens when we pray and study the Bible enough, that we stop sinning and start listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit within us. When our flesh finds a way to cling to life within us, we lose the ability to listen and join in with what God is doing. This happened to the disciples.
5. Who was Jesus calling faithless and twisted and why?
I think He was calling everyone there faithless and twisted. He was calling them that because none of them was walking in step with God, but instead living in the flesh. When we live in the flesh, we lose faith and become twisted in how we should live.