Luke 10:13 - 16
13 “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you. 15 And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? You shall be brought down to Hades.
16 “The one who hears you hears me, and the one who rejects you rejects me, and the one who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
Questions:
ReplyDelete1. This is troubling. Is Jesus saying that there was a chance for Tyre and Sidon to repent, but God didn't grant them enough evidence of Himself so that they would repent? Is this a case of letting people die in their sins when they didn't have to?
2. What did Jesus mean by Capernaum being brought down to Hades?
3. Did Jesus mean that anyone who rejects a Christ follower for any reason rejects Him and God?
https://hartmangroupdevotions.blogspot.com/2015/07/matthew-1120-24-20-then-jesus-began-to.html?zx=eba3928373ff9da9 says:
ReplyDeleteThe argument goes like this: Christ himself said that those wicked cities that were destroyed in the Old Testament times would have repented (and been spared God's destructive wrath) if the miracles of Christ and the preaching of his disciples had come to them (implying that the revelation they received from God was inadequate). If this is the case, then their failure to repent and believe is not their own fault, but God's fault - they would have believed if he had sent them the caliber of revelation brought by Jesus Christ and his disciples.
The common misunderstanding of these passages rests on two interpretive problems. First, Jesus is using an ad hominem argument - he is assuming something his opponents believe and then using it against them. Second, Jesus is using a common rabbinical argument, arguing from the lesser to the greater.
The purpose of Jesus's argument is to warn the Jews of his day that because they were rejecting him and his message, they would justly receive judgment and condemnation from God. First, Jesus assumes (for the purpose of his argument) what was the common Jewish opinion - the inhabitants of Sodom, Gomorrah, Tyre, and Sidon were as completely wicked as they could be and deserved every bit of the destruction God brought against them.
In Matthew 12 Jesus uses the Old Testament and the rabbinic argument from the lesser to the greater in a similar context . . . A similar argument is posed by Jeremiah (3:6-13), where the prophet warns Judah (the southern kingdom) that it will be judged more harshly than Israel (the northern kingdom, disdained by the southern kingdom), because Judah not only had the warning of God, but also had the example of God executing his judgment against Israel first, and yet Judah would not repent.
In fact, God is so just that Jesus elsewhere argues hypothetically that one who is truly ignorant can't be justly judged. In John 15:22 Jesus says, "If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin." In John 9:41 Jesus says, "If you were [spiritually] blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains."
In some ways the main message of the Bible is so simple and so constant from Genesis through Revelation that even a small child can understand the basics of salvation. In other ways the Bible is so rich in history, language, philosophy, literature, and rhetoric that one can never fully plumb its depths. When we carefully study and come to understand problematic passages such as these, we appreciate anew God's perfect revelation of his perfect character, his justice, and his love, on our behalf.
https://hartmangroupdevotions.blogspot.com/2015/07/matthew-1120-24-20-then-jesus-began-to.html?zx=eba3928373ff9da9 continued:
ReplyDeletehttp://revelationrevolution.org/matthew-11-20-24-a-preterist-commentary/ mentions the "Day of Judgement", which was an actual day in 66 A.D. where the Romans came and destroyed many cities in Israel. It was a horrible day that was unparalleled in history. They are suggesting that the coming judgement and destruction was this.
------
My two cents:
We (I anyway) tend to think in terms of heaven and hell and final judgement. I don't think that is how the Jews of that time thought. I think they thought in terms of generational blessings and curses (or even blessing or curses on cities or regions).
Jesus was using an entire city in His example. The people He was talking to well understood the fate of these cursed cities. Jesus was saying that those cities were more righteous than the Jews He was talking to.
I really don't think that we can make observations from this about heaven, hell, the Final Judgment, etc. I don't think Jesus is attempting to teach about that here. I think He's making a point to some people based on their understanding of the world, and that's all He is doing.
Furthermore, some of the articles above try to address fairness (by asking why God didn't do the miracles). I don't think Jesus was attempting to teach us about divine justice here either. I think He was making a simple point using the perspective of the people of that time.
We can get into danger if we read more into a passage than what's there. We can create faulty theology there. It's much better to err on the side of caution, and perhaps miss a side-point that Jesus was trying to make.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-10-commentary says:
ReplyDeleteSteven Cole - The warning is that those who sit in church and yet remain unmoved by the offer of peace with God through Christ, those who are familiar with spiritual truths, but who refuse to submit to Christ as Lord-these religious people will be judged far more harshly than raw pagans who are ignorant of the gospel. J. C. Ryle puts it this way,
We need not run into any excess of riot. We need not openly oppose true religion. We have only to remain cold, careless, indifferent, unmoved, and unaffected, and our end will be in hell. This was the ruin of Chorazin and Bethsaida. And this, it may be feared, will be the ruin of thousands, as long as the world stands. No sin makes less noise, but none so surely damns the soul, as unbelief.
Mattoon makes an interesting point - In the gospel history as we have it, Chorazin is never even mentioned, and we do not know one thing that Jesus did or one word that He spoke there. Nothing could show so vividly how much we do not know about the life of Jesus. The gospels are not biographies. They are only sketches of the life of Jesus.
Since Bethsaida was the hometown of these disciples, it must have been traumatic for them to hear Jesus' rebuke.
Cole - We often hear people say that if they saw a miracle or actually heard Jesus in person, they would believe. Not so! These towns heard Jesus and saw His miracles, but they hardened themselves against Him.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-10-commentary continued:
ReplyDeleteIn light of eternity, the gospel is the crucial message. We are the messengers.
Rod Mattoon lists - Reasons for Rejecting Opportunities
1. Pessimism, Doubt or Unbelief
They do not believe He was the Son of God and that He arose from the grave. They do not believe that eternal life is found only in Him.
2. A Perverse Lifestyle
Perversity or a love for sinful living, will cause people to reject their opportunity to accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.
3. Pride
They are too proud to admit they are sinners. They are too proud to admit their need for a Savior. They are too proud to acknowledge God's authority over their lives.
4. Prejudice against Christ
"Prejudice is being down on something you are not up on. Prejudice is the child of ignorance. Prejudice is having the answers without knowing all the facts." Let me ask, "Are you rejecting Christ because you THINK you have all the answers without knowing all the facts?"
5. Preoccupied with Self and other Matters
They waste their opportunity to trust in the Lord because they are distracted and preoccupied with other matters in their life that are not important at all.
6. The Power of God is Forgotten
In our time, people have forgotten what Christ did on the cross for them and that He arose from the grave.
7. A Perspective of Ungratefulness
A grateful spirit recognizes that in ourselves we have nothing, we are nothing without the Lord, and whatever we have or do we owe to God. If you ever get to a point in your life where you have nothing left but the Lord, then for the first time you will become aware that the Lord is ENOUGH! He is the One that satisfies and without Him we really have nothing!
8. Personal Independence
Proclaiming freedom from God means imprisonment to Satan and being shackled by sinful habits.
9. Procrastination
They put off the matter until another time because they believe they will have time later to give their life to the Lord when they are ready. They are not hostile to the Lord or the Gospel, they just don't want to make any commitments to Christ right now.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Tyre-and-Sidon.html says:
ReplyDeleteTyre and Sidon, ancient cities of Phoenicia, are mentioned several times in both the Old and New Testaments.
Tyre and Sidon are port cities located in modern Lebanon on the Mediterranean coast. Sidon is believed to have existed prior to 2000 BC, with Tyre being just a little younger. The Old Testament mentions Israel’s dealings with these cities, including the Israelites’ failure to conquer Sidon in the conquest of the Promised Land (Judges 1:31), their worship of Sidonian gods on several occasions (Judges 10:6–16; 1 Kings 11), and their obtaining materials from Sidon and Tyre for the building of the temple (1 Chronicles 22:4). King Hiram of Tyre provided many of the temple furnishings for Solomon (1 Kings 7:13–51). Tyrians and Sidonians are also mentioned in helping rebuild the temple in Ezra’s time (Ezra 3:7). Queen Jezebel was a Sidonian (1 Kings 16:31). The Sidonian city of Zarephath was where a widow took care of Elijah and the Lord provided oil and flour for her through the famine; later, the widow’s son became ill, and Elijah raised him from the dead (1 Kings 17:8–24).
The Old Testament also has several prophecies against Tyre and Sidon that predicted a complete overthrow (Isaiah 23; Jeremiah 25; 27; 47; Ezekiel 26–28; Joel 3; Amos 1:9–10; Zechariah 9:1–4). Nebuchadnezzar besieged Tyre from 585–572 BC. Alexander the Great conquered Tyre in 322 BC, completely destroying the city. The Persian king Artaxerxes conquered Sidon. In short, God’s prophesied judgment came to pass. Later, both cities became prosperous provinces of Rome.
Tyre and Sidon were Gentile cities north of Israel, and Jesus had been sent to the Jews (Matthew 15:24). But Jesus still ministered to them: crowds from Tyre and Sidon came to see and listen to Him (Mark 3:7–8). Jesus helped a Syrophoenician woman and commended her faith (Matthew 15:21–28).
Questions and Findings:
ReplyDelete1. This is troubling. Is Jesus saying that there was a chance for Tyre and Sidon to repent, but God didn't grant them enough evidence of Himself so that they would repent? Is this a case of letting people die in their sins when they didn't have to?
I couldn't find people that seriously addressed this issue, even though it's a thought that would naturally occur to many people. Troubling. The only mention I could find was people saying that Jesus was engaging in hyperbole.
To those who claim that, are you saying that Sodom and Gomorrah definitely would not have repented despite what Jesus said?
There may be another solution: There's an example in the Bible of a wicked city repenting in sackcloth and ashes - Nineveh. God sent Jonah to Nineveh to warn them that God was about to destroy their city. They repented, so God relented. At the time, Nineveh was a very evil city. They repented, but (and here is the key) the Bible doesn't say they became a good city afterwards. In fact, after this, they came and wiped Israel (the northern kingdom) from the map. Sometime after this, they were destroyed by Babylon.
God preserved Nineveh as a tool to later punish Israel. Otherwise, would He have saved Nineveh? How much mercy did He show them when they later sinned and were destroyed.
This goes back to what Jesus said. Sodom and Gomorrah may have indeed repented if God would have done miracles in them (just like many people today might repent if they see a bunch of miracles). But, does that lead to true repentance? Or would we temporarily repent and then go back to doing evil, reaping larger consequences - just like Capernaum? I propose that God/Jesus does everything possible to bring truly penitent into His kingdom, but is uninterested in proving Himself "right" to people who only temporarily acknowledge Him.
2. What did Jesus mean by Capernaum being brought down to Hades?
I think He only meant that they would die (i.e. brought down to the grave). I won't at this time address the issue of what happens to them (and us) after they die. I think it would be stretching it just too far to use this verse as some sort of doctrinal proof of what we think Hades is.
3. Did Jesus mean that anyone who rejects a Christ follower for any reason rejects Him and God?
Jesus was sending these 72 on a specific mission - to share the Gospel. If anyone rejects that Gospel they reject God. I think that Jesus does not mean that when we are off-mission, and are acting in an objectional way, that anyone who objects to our objectional behavior is rejecting Jesus. (Jesus would have been rejecting Himself when He pointed out wrong-headedness in the disciples).