Luke 17:5 - 10
5 The apostles said to the Lord, “Increase our faith!” 6 And the Lord said, “If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you.
7 “Will any one of you who has a servant[c] plowing or keeping sheep say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and recline at table’? 8 Will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare supper for me, and dress properly,[d] and serve me while I eat and drink, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank the servant because he did what was commanded? 10 So you also, when you have done all that you were commanded, say, ‘We are unworthy servants;[e] we have only done what was our duty.’”
Questions:
ReplyDelete1. What does it look like to have faith as small as a mustard seed?
2. Is flying trees the natural result of having faith?
3. Why shouldn't servants be treated well?
4. What is this attitude that Jesus is saying we should have?
https://hartmangroupdevotions.blogspot.com/2015/11/matthew-1714-20-14-when-they-came-to.html?zx=5691387546a615f8 says:
ReplyDelete(http://www.ukapologetics.net/8faultyfaith.htm):
define faith in a certain way: "Some folks believe that if you say, 'I believe that God can heal me if He plans to,' that is faith, but that is not faith at all. To have faith is to say, 'I believe that God IS GOING to heal me TODAY!"
Maturity has shown me that it is a somewhat flawed view. Now - for sure - we are encouraged to pray believingly, not doubtingly.
four Scriptures: Mark 11:22-24, Matthew 21:21-22, Matthew 17:19-21 and James 1:6-8. Now, if these were the only Scriptures which discussed faith in the Word of God, it might lead to a somewhat different view of faith from that which, I believe, we should hold. But to honestly evaluate and to come to understand any doctrine of the Church we must always consider all of the Scriptures on that doctrine.
If we only had James 1:6-8 and Matthew 21:21-22, there is no doubt that those verses might tend to lead to a somewhat different colouring of this doctrine, indeed, I might almost say that just those verses would tend to support that certain charismatic view of faith which seems to place faith, gifts and 'spiritual experience' on a pedestal, elevating them above other facets of Bible teaching. In actual practise this tendency seems to pan out in a slant on faith which is just not biblically-grounded. That is: we just pray for what we want and, if we earnestly believe, there would be no doubt we would get it - if we didn't get it, we could not have believed enough. Presumably, no matter what you want (these verses don't tell us too much all on their own), we should get it if our "faith" is functioning correctly.
a few may feel that I am saying that we cannot count on God to answer our prayers - very far from it. We definitely can!!!
if we are truly Christs we can and SHOULD expect dynamic answers to prayer! But that dynamic answer may not be to give us exactly what we want when we want it because - excepting emergencies - that is quite often not the case. We must understand that God's wisdom and knowledge is far above ours, and, when listening to the prayers of His servants, He must take many factors into account. Yet we should confidently bring our petitions to God. In doing so, we are putting our case before the very Ruler of the Universe.
https://hartmangroupdevotions.blogspot.com/2015/11/matthew-1714-20-14-when-they-came-to.html?zx=5691387546a615f8 continued:
ReplyDelete(http://www.ukapologetics.net/8faultyfaith.htm continued):
Now, of course, I think we all understand that only God can move mountains, that is within His own sovereignty and almighty power - not ours. So what did Jesus mean? What these verses are saying is that if one had total and utter faith - the sort of faith which Christ had when He walked upon this earth - then such an individual (if it were needful for some definite and God-sanctioned reason) could request the moving of a mountain - and God would do it!! But - at least theoretically - if a man or woman was that filled with faith and with the Holy Spirit they could do quite amazing things - through God's power - very definitely not through any "power" of their own! Faith itself - after all - is given by God.
Jesus rebuked them because the power to drive out demons had already been granted to them (Matthew 10:1) and they should have held to this in faith, and not doubted. In other words, just as the power to heal the sick and to drive out demons would need to be specifically granted by God, even so the power to remove a mountain would need to be specifically granted by God.
But to say that 'God is going to heal me TODAY!' would need a specific revelation to come to us from God alone. If there is no revelation, no claim should ever be made! Unfortunately a very flawed view of faith has developed which sees faith as something which allows us to manipulate God in order to get what we want when we want it - we must avoid that. Jesus' 'faith moving mountains' comments in no way support the 'positive confession' or 'word-faith' view that if we can just summon up enough faith, we can actually tap into God's supreme sovereignty and demand certain things which He then must give us as long as we have asked boldly enough!
But if that person then added, "Such is my faith, that I claim my healing by this time tomorrow!" Is that really faith? Or simply foolishness which has no scriptural basis? I think that the answer to that should now be obvious.
https://hartmangroupdevotions.blogspot.com/2015/11/matthew-1714-20-14-when-they-came-to.html?zx=5691387546a615f8 continued:
ReplyDeleteMy two cents on faith:
Faith is Not just believing really hard. Faith is having the mind of Christ. Faith is walking in step with the Holy Spirit within us. Faith is being obedient to what Christ has given us the authority to do.
So, why did the disciples not have enough faith this time? It's not clear why or how they didn't have enough faith this time (although, I believe that it was Not because they didn't believe hard enough). I think that our ability to walk in step with Christ/the Holy Spirit wavers. Sometimes we have our eyes on what God is doing and sometimes we don't.
I think John 5:19 gives an idea of what faith looks like: 'Jesus gave them this answer: “Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.'
The disciples didn't have a problem with belief (in the way we understand it - i.e. believing in Santa). They had a problem with their vision. I believe that their minds weren't on what God wanted done.
This also explains what Jesus meant by having faith to move mountains. If we see that God wants a mountain moved, and we are in it with Him, and He gives us the authority to move the mountain, we can obey or not obey.
With faith, first comes seeing what God is doing, understanding what God wants us to do, ridding ourselves of worldly thoughts, and then choosing to do what God commands.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/17-5.htm says:
ReplyDeleteThat command of a seven-fold—i.e., an unlimited—forgiveness seemed to make almost too great a strain on their faith. Did it not imply an almost miraculous victory over natural impulses, that could be wrought only by a supernatural grace? Was not the faith that could “remove mountains” wanted, if ever, here—a faith in the pardoning love of the Father, and in their own power to reproduce it?
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And the apostles said, Lord, increase our faith — That we may thus forgive, and neither offend nor be offended. And he said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard-seed — You would be able to overcome all temptations, even those, the conquering of which may be compared to the plucking up of trees and planting them in the ocean, that is, compared to things impossible. Some, taking this example (by which the efficacy of faith is illustrated) in a literal sense, have supposed, that the apostles desired Jesus to increase their faith of working miracles. But the expression is undoubtedly proverbial, signifying, not the working of miracles, but the doing of things extremely difficult.
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Increase our faith - This duty of forgiving offences seemed so difficult to the disciples that they strongly felt the need of an increase of faith. They felt that they were prone themselves to harbor resentments, and that it required an additional increase of true religion to enable them to comply with the requirements of Jesus. We may learn from this:
1. That Jesus has "the power" of increasing the faith of his people. Strength comes from him, and especially strength to believe the gospel. Hence, he is called the "Author and Finisher" of our faith, Hebrews 12:2.
2. The duty of forgiving offences is one of the most difficult duties of the Christian religion. It is so contrary to our natural feelings; it implies such elevation above the petty feelings of malice and revenge, and is so contrary to the received maxims of the world, which teach us to "cherish" rather than to forgive the memory of offences, that it is no wonder our Saviour dwells much on this duty, and so strenuously insists on it in order to our having evidence that our hearts have been changed.
Some have thought that this prayer that he would increase their faith refers to the power of working miracles, and especially to the case recorded in Matthew 17:16-20.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/17-7.htm says:
ReplyDeleteThey had been asking for faith, not only in a measure sufficient for obedience, but as excluding all uncertainty and doubt. They were looking for the crown of labour before their work was done, for the wreath of the conqueror before they had fought the battle. He presses home upon them the analogies of common human experience. So, in the life of the disciples, outward ministerial labour was to be followed by personal devotion. In other words, the “increase of faith” for which the Apostles prayed, was to come through obedience, outward and inward obedience, to their Master’s will. 2Peter 1:5, as showing that the lesson had been learnt.
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This parable appears to have been spoken with reference to the rewards which the disciples were expecting in the kingdom of the Messiah. The occasion on which it was spoken cannot be ascertained. It does not seem to have any particular connection with what goes before. It may be supposed that the disciples were somewhat impatient to have the kingdom restored to Israel Acts 1:6 - that is, that he would assume his kingly power, and that they were impatient of the "delay," and anxious to enter on "the rewards" which they expected, and which they not improbably were expecting in consequence of their devotedness to him. In answer to these expectations, Jesus spoke this parable, showing them,
1. That they should be rewarded as a servant would be provided for; but,
2. That this was not the "first" thing; that there was a proper "order" of things, and that thus the reward might be delayed, as a servant would be provided for, but at the proper time, and at the pleasure of the master; and,
3. That this reward was not to be expected as a matter of "merit," but would be given at the good pleasure of God, for they were but unprofitable servants.
By and by - This should have been translated "immediately." He would not, "as the first thing," or "as soon" as he returned from the field, direct him to eat and drink. Hungry and weary he might be, yet it would be proper for him first to attend upon his master. So the apostles were not to be "impatient" because they did not "at once" receive the reward for which they were looking.
https://biblehub.com/commentaries/luke/17-10.htm says:
ReplyDeleteAre unprofitable servants - We have conferred no favor. We have "merited" nothing. We have not "benefited" God, or laid him under "obligation." If he rewards us, it will be matter of unmerited favor. This is true in relation to Christians in the following respects:
1. Our services are not "profitable" to God Job 22:2; he "needs" not our aid, and his essential happiness will not be increased by our efforts.
2. The grace to do his will comes from him only, and all the praise of that will be due to him.
3. All that we do is what is our "duty;" we cannot lay claim to having rendered any service that will "bind" him to show us favor; and,
4. Our best services are mingled with imperfections. We come short of his glory Romans 3:23; we do not serve him as sincerely, and cheerfully, and faithfully as we ought; we are far, very far from the example set us by the Saviour; and if we are saved and rewarded, it will be because God will be merciful to our unrighteousness, and will remember our iniquities no more, Hebrews 8:12.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-17-commentary says:
ReplyDeleteThey saw that if they wanted to fulfill these demands, they would have to have God’s strength and enabling to do it. But Jesus’ answer (Lk 17:6) indicates that more faith is not really the issue. Faith is not measured by its quantity, but simply by its presence. A mustard seed sized faith will accomplish impossible things. The real need, Jesus says (Lk 17:7-10), is for more obedience and humility. We should view ourselves as God’s slaves who owe Him simple and unquestioning obedience. And, when we have done what He requires, we should not get puffed up with pride in our great obedience.
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Mattoon - Faith is not measured by its bigness or by its smallness. What is needed in us is a living, active faith or a faith that is in the Lord Himself and in His indwelling Holy Spirit.
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John Piper comments: In Lu 17:5 the apostles ask Jesus to increase their faith. How does Jesus help them? In two ways, both of which are by telling them truth. So even in the way he responds he shows us that faith comes by hearing. Knowing certain things should increase our faith. 1. First, he strengthens our faith by telling us in v6 that the crucial issue in accomplishing great things to advance the kingdom of God is not the quantity of our faith, but the power of God. By referring to the tiny mustard seed after being asked about increased faith, he deflects attention away from the quantity of faith to the object of faith. God moves mulberry trees. And it does not depend decisively on the quantity of our faith, but on His power and wisdom and love. In knowing this we are helped not to worry about our faith and are inspired to trust God's free initiative and power.
2. Second, he helps their faith grow by telling them in v7-10 that when they have done all they are commanded to do, they are still radically dependent on grace. The gist of it is that the owner of a slave does not become a debtor to the slave no matter how much work the slave does. The meaning is that God is never our debtor. We are always his debtor. And we will never be able to pay this debt, nor are we ever meant to. We will always be dependent on grace. We will never work our way up out of debt to a place where God is in our debt. Grace is being treated better than you deserve. So it is with us in relation to God. We never treat God with grace. We never give him more than he deserves. Which means that he never owes us thanks. This is a great encouragement to faith. Why? Because it means that God is just as free to bless us before we get our act together as he is after. Since we are "unworthy" slaves before we have done what we should, and "unworthy" slaves afterwards as well, it is only grace that would prompt God to help us. Therefore he is free to help us before and after. This is a great incentive to trust him for help when we feel like our act is not together.
https://www.preceptaustin.org/luke-17-commentary continued:
ReplyDeleteMacArthur - Jesus was not speaking of literally moving a tree; He was speaking metaphorically. The point is that those who trust Him will receive supernatural power to do what they could not do in their own human strength. Humble people are powerful people because they understand their weakness and depend completely on “Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us” (Eph. 3:20).
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Most likely either a white or more likely a black mulberry tree is a deciduous fruit tree that grows about 20 ft (6 m) tall and has black juicy berries. The major point is that this tree has an extensive root system, so pulling it up would be a major operation. In fact the roots were regarded as so strong that it was virtually impossible to uproot.
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The statement is not to be watered down by spiritualizing it. It simply means that the person who has the smallest possible amount of real faith becomes the instrument of God’s unlimited power. On the other hand, we must recognize that faith is not a magic by which we control God. Nor is it synonymous with presumption. We cannot use it to back God into a comer and force him to produce a sensational show which will enable us to make the headlines.
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MacArthur explains - Although some fail to see the connection, this concluding parable fits in with the overall theme of this section. The scribes and Pharisees were obsessed with being honored. In Matthew 23:5-7 Jesus said of them, “They do all their deeds to be noticed by men; for they broaden their phylacteries and lengthen the tassels of their garments. They love the place of honor at banquets and the chief seats in the synagogues, and respectful greetings in the market places, and being called Rabbi by men” (cf. Luke 20:46-47). That attitude is not to characterize the true followers of Jesus Christ. There is a danger that as they recognize their weakness, trust in God’s power, and are used by Him that they become arrogant and prideful. Lest they forget that everything they have and do is solely by God’s grace, Jesus told this parable as a warning against spiritual pride.
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Steven Cole - Jesus responds that the amount of faith isn’t really the issue, since a small amount of faith will accomplish great things (Lk 17:5-6). The real issue is adopting the proper attitude as a servant and not thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to think (Lk 17:7-10).
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Keener - Most slaveholders had few slaves; thus the slaves did both fieldwork and food preparation. Masters regarded this work as their slaves’ duty, not an option. Nor was it considered honorable for masters to eat with their slaves, and it was virtually never done. The point of the illustration seems to be: Faith grows as one uses it as a servant; its end is service, and it is never an end in itself.
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The apostles, realizing that they could never live up to these expectations in their own strength, said, “Increase our faith” (v.5). Jesus promised that if they had a small grain of faith they would be able to remove whatever stood in the way of their obedience to these commands (v.6). He then told a parable to show them the need to fulfill these obligations cheerfully out of love rather than grudgingly or with an eye on being rewarded (vv.7-10).
Questions and findings:
ReplyDelete1. What does it look like to have faith as small as a mustard seed?
I made a mistake separating these verses from the verses before. This is in response to their request to increase their faith (which was in response to Jesus' impossible command to forgive endlessly). Faith is something you have or you don't. Faith is required to obey any command of God. You either obey God/Jesus or you don't. Any amount of faith is having faith. Faith is seeing what God is doing, internalizing what He is doing, and doing it. We can't have faith on our own. It takes God's intervention to give us or teach us faith. In the New Testament, that intervention is the Holy Spirit that God has graciously given us to dwell in us and teach us.
2. Is flying trees the natural result of having faith?
In a certain aspect, this is hyperbole. If you link in the spiritual world (and you must to understand the Bible at all), then amazing impossible things will happen there when we act in faith. (When we act in faith, it means we had faith). That's not so say that amazing things in the physical world doesn't happen. But (I claim) that these amazing physical things that do happen are a byproduct of what is going on in the spiritual world.
3. Why shouldn't servants be treated well?
4. What is this attitude that Jesus is saying we should have?
Servants/employees should be treated well. That's not the point here. From our (the servant's) perspective, this means that we should not be expecting gratitude and (extra) rewards when we do our duty. God has promised us specific things and we are welcome to expect them. But we must realize that those things, and any good thing we get, are pure grace on the part of God. We must realize that we are very poor servants, or we will never gain the power to do anything positive for Christ at all. Think of the Beatitudes again: Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven . . .